Elysian Battle Reports - Two games in two days
As per the title I managed to get in 2 games with my full 2000pt list over the weekend.
He is trying out a new list, an Alaitoc list with 6 flyers, 60 Rangers, and a Farseer and Autarch on bikes. Note the objective markers he uses, a 6" diameter circle so you can instantly see if a model is within 3" of the centre of the objective. I just thought that was a good idea.
So I deployed well back with everything out range and the Tauros's out of line of sight, and he deployed everything except the planes in that large building.
Helped by his smaller number of drops he went first, and moved up with his planes (which can move over 60") and killed most of my Tauros's, and some of the mortars.
In my turn I moved up with my planes and unloaded near the building. The two Astropaths used ignore cover on two of the 10 man Ranger units, whereupon he used a stratagem that I could only hit one of these units on 6's. So I wiped out one of the ranger units and killed most of the other unit.
His turn 2 he killed the rest of my ground troops, being the few remaining mortars and Tauros's with his planes, and the masses of rangers shot the deployed troops, and then he won as all I had left on the board was flyers.
He offered to have another game straight away with me going first to see how much difference that would make but it was getting late. It would have been better for me as I would have the invul save on the Tauros's, and would have probably gotten to deepstrike the rest of my stuff. But I don't really have enough anti-air to take the flyers, or enough concentrated firepower to shift 60 Alaitoc rangers in cover, as they will snipe the Astropaths pretty quickly.
I hadn't really considered how easy it would be to eliminate my ground components. In hindsight I probably should have started with a couple of infantry squads also on the board hidden out of sight. It wouldn't have won me the game but I would at least have gotten a 2nd turn, and if I had managed to tie up those rangers in close combat that would have severely reduced their shooting.
His list was a lot of Genestealers, some Termagants and a few Nurenthropes for synapse and psychic support.
I deployed similarly, well back but not worried about shooting as his list had very little firepower.
He went first and moved all his units forward as far as he could.
In my turn I killed a lot of Genestealers, especially with the Vultures whose guns seem tailor made for killing large numbers of them, however my lascannons were less useful as all his larger Tyranids were characters so I was wasting their high strength.
In his 2nd turn he made contact with my units, killing some mortars and wounding some of the Tauros's, and doing a few smite wounds on the flyers.
So my turn 2 I unloaded one of the Valkyries in Melta range of his Warlord, dropped the assassin near another Nurenthrope, and the plasma command squads near another character. Killed a bunch more Genestealers and Termagants with the flyers, the warlord made his invul saves vs the Melta and the assassin shot, charged and killed the Nurenthrope. The phase sword ignored his 3+ invul save and the -3 AP ignored his regular save, so he went down easy.
From here it was mostly cleaning up the remaining Tyranids. I lost a Valk and a few more guardsmen but still has most of my army left. The standout action of the rest of the game was the assassin who after killing the Nurenthrope, the only nearby enemy was a 30 man Termagant unit, so rather than leaving her exposed to their shooting charged her into them. I fully expected her to kill a few and then get overwhelmed, but 4 rounds of combat later there were 30 dead Termagants, and she was still alive on 1 wound. Their nearby Nuerenthrope was killed after a couple of rounds of fighting and then they starting losing some to morale too, but she prevailed.
So not so many lessons learnt in this game, but still good practice in getting to know that stats and capabilities of the different units. And just a bit of awareness of how good assassins can be. While her rolls were slightly better than average, they were not much better.
So as for changes to the list I am considering dropping one of the Valks as the melta special weapon squads are underperforming. Not sure what to replace them with, but am considering another flyer, more infantry, or maybe a 2nd assassin. I have no games planned in the immediate future, but will try and get in a game next weekend so have a few days to decide.
But please post any comments or suggestions on where you think I should go next with the army.
Game 1
First was Friday evening after work with a friend of mine. He is a very frequent tournament player, and one of the highest ranked players in Australia. I have also never won a game against him, but playing him exposes weaknesses in my army and his advice is very useful. He also likes playing me as I don't run conventional tournament lists so it gives him a chance to use his lists against something different (or so he says, maybe he just likes easy wins).He is trying out a new list, an Alaitoc list with 6 flyers, 60 Rangers, and a Farseer and Autarch on bikes. Note the objective markers he uses, a 6" diameter circle so you can instantly see if a model is within 3" of the centre of the objective. I just thought that was a good idea.
So I deployed well back with everything out range and the Tauros's out of line of sight, and he deployed everything except the planes in that large building.
Helped by his smaller number of drops he went first, and moved up with his planes (which can move over 60") and killed most of my Tauros's, and some of the mortars.
In my turn I moved up with my planes and unloaded near the building. The two Astropaths used ignore cover on two of the 10 man Ranger units, whereupon he used a stratagem that I could only hit one of these units on 6's. So I wiped out one of the ranger units and killed most of the other unit.
His turn 2 he killed the rest of my ground troops, being the few remaining mortars and Tauros's with his planes, and the masses of rangers shot the deployed troops, and then he won as all I had left on the board was flyers.
He offered to have another game straight away with me going first to see how much difference that would make but it was getting late. It would have been better for me as I would have the invul save on the Tauros's, and would have probably gotten to deepstrike the rest of my stuff. But I don't really have enough anti-air to take the flyers, or enough concentrated firepower to shift 60 Alaitoc rangers in cover, as they will snipe the Astropaths pretty quickly.
I hadn't really considered how easy it would be to eliminate my ground components. In hindsight I probably should have started with a couple of infantry squads also on the board hidden out of sight. It wouldn't have won me the game but I would at least have gotten a 2nd turn, and if I had managed to tie up those rangers in close combat that would have severely reduced their shooting.
Game 2
On Saturday morning I had a game against another friend of mine who is also planning to attend the same tournament. He is a much more casual player, and is currently playing Tyranids.His list was a lot of Genestealers, some Termagants and a few Nurenthropes for synapse and psychic support.
I deployed similarly, well back but not worried about shooting as his list had very little firepower.
He went first and moved all his units forward as far as he could.
In my turn I killed a lot of Genestealers, especially with the Vultures whose guns seem tailor made for killing large numbers of them, however my lascannons were less useful as all his larger Tyranids were characters so I was wasting their high strength.
In his 2nd turn he made contact with my units, killing some mortars and wounding some of the Tauros's, and doing a few smite wounds on the flyers.
So my turn 2 I unloaded one of the Valkyries in Melta range of his Warlord, dropped the assassin near another Nurenthrope, and the plasma command squads near another character. Killed a bunch more Genestealers and Termagants with the flyers, the warlord made his invul saves vs the Melta and the assassin shot, charged and killed the Nurenthrope. The phase sword ignored his 3+ invul save and the -3 AP ignored his regular save, so he went down easy.
From here it was mostly cleaning up the remaining Tyranids. I lost a Valk and a few more guardsmen but still has most of my army left. The standout action of the rest of the game was the assassin who after killing the Nurenthrope, the only nearby enemy was a 30 man Termagant unit, so rather than leaving her exposed to their shooting charged her into them. I fully expected her to kill a few and then get overwhelmed, but 4 rounds of combat later there were 30 dead Termagants, and she was still alive on 1 wound. Their nearby Nuerenthrope was killed after a couple of rounds of fighting and then they starting losing some to morale too, but she prevailed.
So not so many lessons learnt in this game, but still good practice in getting to know that stats and capabilities of the different units. And just a bit of awareness of how good assassins can be. While her rolls were slightly better than average, they were not much better.
So as for changes to the list I am considering dropping one of the Valks as the melta special weapon squads are underperforming. Not sure what to replace them with, but am considering another flyer, more infantry, or maybe a 2nd assassin. I have no games planned in the immediate future, but will try and get in a game next weekend so have a few days to decide.
But please post any comments or suggestions on where you think I should go next with the army.
Just blitzed your blog, great read for someone converting up an elysian brigade.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if your army wouldn't benefit from using a character to anchor against getting boots on the ground'ed turn 1. Just deploy him in such a fashion as to be impossible for flyers to get into shooting. Commissars are dirt cheap as my first guess. Techpriests might be good as well; toughest non catachan character we have, and can repair any wounds you take on your hovering gunships. Even if you move around, flyers are fast enough to scoot back to your lines for a heal up a bracket.
Other option I can think of, if you want more assassins, is a vindicare. He's typically the worst of the lot, but if you want another assassin you need 3 total anyways, so take him and a culexus. He's hard to shift, with character protection, a -2 to shooting while in cover, and his 4++. Mathhammering, would need like 10 bs3 lascannons. Even rangers like your enemy would struggle, and his 72 in range means most won't be able to hit anyways. I suppose a slamguinius could pull it off out of deepstrike, but if your enemy has that kind of capability, a tiny bit of flyer screen should keep him safe. At that point, only thing you need fear is really another callidus.
His flyers have such a high movement that they can move anywhere on the board, and with 2 turns to kill my ground forces another character wouldn't have made a difference. However they lacked any horde killing ability so if I had deployed a squad or two of drop troopers he probably wouldn't have been able to kill them all.
ReplyDeleteBut even if I had survived to bring in my drops I don't think I could have killed enough rangers before my forces got wiped out. I would have needed to get them into close combat, and while rangers are weak, he did have an Autarch and a Farseer with them.
However against a fast moving close combat army I doublt he would have done so well, as they would have munched through is rangers in no time at all.
I have been thinking about adding in some more assassins, but probably not the vindicare, but a Culexus and an Eversor to provide additional deep-striking close combat ability.
I have modified my list to a brigade, adding in there more drop trooper squads and dropping one of the valkyries. The melta special weapon squads have been the weakest perorming unit so far, so I have upgrades one to a command squad, and consolidated them into one Valk. Lists are due this weekend so won't have a chace to practice my new list, but am feeling confident. Not of winning the tournament, but providing a decent showing.
I mean stick him in a corner so no flyer base can fit behind him, then stick a flyer and some mortars around him so that there are no flyer-base sized spaces that a flyer could even fit turn 1.
DeleteAnd yeah, melta is just generally worse than plasma this edition. 4 points more, and you ONLY beat the plasma damage output if in melta range, and even then only buy a fraction of a damage on average. The only units which can justify it are Scions specifically within 6in, because between storm troopers, Melta, and their special orders to reroll ALL failed wounds, the expected damage output climbs significantly above plasmas. But then you need a transport to pull it off, instead of just taking a 2nd plasma command squad to deepstrike.
G'day mate, good work with your blog. Don't feel bad about your first game - that list was a hard counter to yours, and will struggle hard against most new Ork builds and armies that can assault fliers (jump-Captains).
ReplyDeleteSome thoughts on your list. You seem light on for both bodies and CP. For a 2000pt Elysian list I would run the following;
Elysian Brigade plus Air Wing - 2000pts, 13CP
HQ
Company Commander - lasgun/aux grenade launcher, powersword, krak grenades
2 x Company Commanders - lasgun/aux grenade launcher, krak grenades
Elite
3 x Command Squads - 4 plasmaguns
Troops
4 x Drop Troop Squads - aux grenade launcher, plasmagun, missile launcher
2 x Drop Troop Squads - plasma pistol, flamer
Fast Attack
2 x 1 Tauros Venator - twin lascannon
3 x Tauros - heavy flamers
Heavy Support
3 x Heavy Weapon Squads - mortars
Air Wing
2 x 1 Vulture - punisher cannons
2 x 1 Vendetta - lascannons
Works out 2000pts exactly. With this list you lose the assassin, your psykers, some Tauros Venators and a couple of meltaguns, but you have more lascannons, more bodies and still have 4 fliers.
Let me know what you think!
Ken
I agree with you about not having about bodies and CP so I have gone to a Brigade, droping one of the Valkyries to get an extra 3 drop squads. Lists were due in yesterday, and I have pasted my list below.
ReplyDeleteAnd with your list, Drop Trooper squads cannot take heavy weapon teams, nor auxilary grenade launchers on the Sergeants. Only Veteran squads can do this.
I am not that fond of Vendettas in 8th, as they do not get the roving gunshiop rule that Valkyries get. 6 Lascannons is nice, but hitting on 5's is not so good.
Brigade, Aerial Wing and Aux Support detachment, 1999pts, 15 CPs
HQ
3x Elysian Company Commanders with Lasgun and Auxiliary Grenade Launcher
- 1 Warlord with The Laurels of Command and Master of Command
- 1 with Power sword/Blade of Conquest
Troops
6x Elysian Drop Trooper Squads, 10 lasguns each
Elites
2x Elysian Command Squads, 4x plasma each
1x Elysian Command Squad, 4x melta (In valkyrie)
1x Elysian Special weapon Squad, 3x melta (In valkyrie)
1x Astropath (In valkyrie)
1x Officer of the Fleet
1x Callidus Assassin
Fast Attack
3x Tauros Venator Squads, 2 Venators with lascannons and hunter killer missiles
Heavy Support
3x Elysian Heavy Weapon Squads, 3 mortars
Flyer
1x Valkyrie with Hellstrike missiles, Multilaser, 2x Heavy Bolters
2x Twin Punisher Vultures
Good pickup on the Drop Troop wargear - must have been looking at Veterans and got mixed up. My bad.
DeleteAs for Vendettas, I've found I only move them once or twice per game. Put them in hover mode, keep them stationary, and you are hitting on a 4+. Only go into airborne mode to relocate for LOS or to avoid combat.
Good luck in your tournament, I look forward to seeing some batreps!
Then you're getting 6 lascannon shots hitting on 4s, not 3s, for a t7 platform with no minus 1 protection and no doctrines/orders, for 50 points more than an annihilator that you can't hide outnof LoS. 20 of that is extra lascannon, sure, but you pay 30 points for flimsier platform (which admitedly can't gry tied up in combat) which can't hold objectives, fill out detachments, or count for boots on the ground.
DeleteIt's ok, but nothing special
You make some good points about the Vendettas. I had dismissed them in 8th and am hoping they pick up the roving gunship rule that the Valkyrie has, but I may look at taking them in a list to see how they perform. I do feel that the prepared defences rule has actually helped out flyers a lot as it is otherwise quite difficult to get cover on a flyer. I do still like the Tauros's as I can completely hide them turn 1, and then move out and fire with full ballistic skill. And with the hunter killers missiles that is almost another lascannon shot each turn 1.
DeleteAnd Annihilators are more cost effective, but a Vendetta fits into an Elysian force better.
Col Hayson - you are right, Vendettas are ok, but nothing special. However, a few points;
Delete1) A Valkyrie can hit on a 3+, sure, but it gets a lot fewer shots. For 150pts you can get one with a lascannon and missiles. Each turn you'll get 1-2 hits. But let's say that you have perfect accuracy and get 2 hits every turn without fail. Each hit "costs" 75pts (150pts/2 hits). Now compare a Vendetta. Unlike the Valkyrie this one isn't perfect and hits on the normal 4+. 6 shots will generate average 3 hits - 76pts per shot (230pts/3 hits).
Firepower-wise an average Vendetta is as good as a perfect Valkyrie.
2) Compared to a Leman Russ Annihilator the Vendetta is more expensive. However the ability to not get tied up in combat is huge, especially with all those Turn 1 charges. If it needs to relocate the Vendetta can move - in one turn - to just about anyplace on the board. You can also throw the remnants of a squad into one before you do, and drop them off near a backfield objective on the way. Meanwhile, your more cost-effective Leman Russ is falling back from combat only to get charged again next Turn.
Would you pay 30pts to give your Leman Russ the ability to relocate anywhere on the board, with the option of carrying a squad? Sounds like a good investment to me.
Vendettas aren't what I'd call Good. But they are definitely OK. They have limitations, but also offer up new capabilities that can catch an opponent off guard.
My two bob!
Ken